We Are Incredibly Powerful

A belief, if based on a deception, is something we will desperately try to protect by all means – because that one belief makes up our perception of the world and we don’t like our worldview to change so easily when it’s us who don’t like change.

This is a reply post to “Freedom is my Virtue“. Since I started a conversation in their comment section but my reply this time would be too long for another comment.

“The place I live in is a bubble. […] I realize that living in a bubble does make us disconnected with reality.”

Yet you feel entitled to make such a serious post about the problems in this world while you admit to have no idea about reality. I am seriously intrigued and I want to give you another perspective. First of all, I do not make this post to attack you because I can see that you really, really want good for the world. But your idea is flawed because you want the things to stay as they are by making miniscule changes which in your mind would make the world somehow magically better (mostly for your conscience). I’m picking this up because you mentioned the impact the animal killing industry has on the people of this world and the environment.

You threw the word veganism somewhere in there but only to protect yourself from possible attacks against you.

” Not advocating veganism, here—but […]”

pexels-photo-112640Question: Since when do we have to fear to promote life, health and freedom? Not only the life of animals (if that’s worth nothing to you) but also the life of the people who die of the consequences of eating animals AND the survival of the actual planet we live on?

“[…] I don’t see why our government hasn’t yet jumped at the chance to carry out this world-saving masterplan.”

I can tell you why: supply and demand. Plus, the triple-profit you bring because you are what you eat. By eating death and disease you become death and disease and here’s where the government farms you. Pharmaceutics. Because people want to stay alive while making no lifestyle changes. Yet to my question as to why you’re ashamed to advocate veganism even though you clearly acknowledge its benefits on a large scale you say this:

“[…] yes, veganism guarantees greater health benefits and lessens environmental costs. But in the developed world, large-scale veganism would cause economic disruption […]”

pexels-photo-112855Another perspective: stopping wars from one day to another would cause large economic disruption. Supply and demand of weaponry, too many governments tied in, too many soldiers – who really are nothing but livestock to their governments are on the field (they send them to their deaths, you’re aware of that, right?) It is possible however, is to gradually stop causing unneccessary harm to living beings (including humans) as well as destroying the environment.

Lucky that this is the way veganism spreads opposed to your silly implication of total economic devastation in one sweep. Have you seen how many vegan food companies have been created lately, how many vegan restaurants open up daily? Vegan clothing, vegan everything, and this all grows gradually. We are not shutting down the animal killing industry today but we are shifting the supply and demand towards more beneficent, healthier options – steadily!

“There is nothing wrong with eating meat.”

So you’re saying there’s nothing wrong with clogging our arteries, literally and directly feeding certain types of cancer, living with hormonal imbalances caused by dairy (since we’re not baby cows, eh) I’m not even going to get into other common diseases most people suffer from at a certain age such as Dementia, Alzheimer’s etc – it’s all trackable to corpse and animal’s body fluids consumption.

Every actual nutritionist – a person who actually studied nutrition (such as the people from the American Dietetic Association) will recommend a vegan diet for health. They have proven that a vegan diet is appropriate for all stages of the life-cycle including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. There’s tons of proof available at your fingertips, only if you’re willing to look. And I mean actual biological proof that our bodies are not developed for meat consumption which is the main reason our arteries clog from consuming animal products. Truly omnivorous or even carnivorous beings don’t develop atherosclerosis (= clogged arteries) after flesh consumption.

You advocate bad health and violence with both of your arguments. And if you deny that that is what you imply then PLEASE, please go and watch Gary Yourofsky’s ‘Best Speech You Will Ever Hear’, watch the documentary ‘Earthlings’

e8cf34a8f90e3d4360b8842603fd9083If the only freedom you value is your own freedom to make up the reality you want to see, you truly are free to remain in your bubble. But where’s the point in making those kind of posts on your blog?

The world won’t change unless you do and your voice won’t be heard if all you ever do is talk.

As of now it seems I am the only person who has truly heard you and I offer you the chance to educate yourself on what’s really happening in the world. Ignorance is no longer an excuse, you have all the info at your fingertips – I have linked all the crucial studies and video material to you so you don’t even have to look them up on your own. If you’re not the hypocrite you make yourself look like then prove yourself. I’d love to actually talk to you after you look into those things.

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24 thoughts on “We Are Incredibly Powerful

  1. Er…. I don’t mean to offend anyone but I guess what he did was pointing out one particular problem of using food grains as fodder for livestock.
    It’s true that the total food grain production in the world is large enough to feed most of the population of the world. But according to FAO, roughly one-third of food produced for human consumption is lost or wasted globally, which amounts to about 1.3 billion tons per year. Along with this feeding grains to livestock is increasing the problem of food crisis.
    Another thing he suggested is the point of malnutrition and his stats show that wealth is getting concentrated, increasing inequality – which I believe is true.
    Going vegan was not an option he wanted to highlight, it was just used in the context. And it’s true that food habits can’t change in a short while and it should not change for all as well. If everyone in this world go vegan, the ecosystem will collapse.
    With all due respect, I guess this post is a bit harsh for him.

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    1. Eh…okay Mr. Nobody aka Bias. Yes, I am VERY harsh when it comes to stupidity, hypocrisy, all talk no do just to sound good along with willful ignorance. And now you’ve gotten yourself in for something. All of their arguments mentioned in their post directly tie into veganism as a solution and the discussion I started in the comment is about veganism, so what makes you feel entitled to tell me I shouldn’t have posted this oh so harsh reply? Is it because you don’t want to deal with reality? Get over yourself.

      I’m (not) sorry if your taste preferences got offended. Is that why you bother opening your mouth while being completely uneducated? You’re just as biased as most of the population (I’d be surprised if you weren’t) and you missed the entire point of my reply (which is not even to you, so again I don’t understand why you even bother opening your mouth just because you got offended but it is a good thing, people like you should always be offended).

      The most entertaining thing is: I would like to hear you explain how exactly the ecosystem would collapse if people went vegan? You’re aware that people aren’t biological carni/omnivores, right? Or is this something that you never even heard of? Non-veganism is what destroys the ecosystem, moron, all you need to do is look around you. The points they mentioned in their post tie into global warming and mass hunger due to the slaughter industry. But you don’t care because you’re a nobody and you’re gonna die soon anyway or what?

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      1. 😊😊 Just let me ask you one question – why do feel eating meat is bad? I mean is it due to animal killing or due health issues? Or something else?

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      2. To answer my questions you don’t even need to know that. Besides, for a person with a decent IQ my position should be very clear by now. Not for a short-sighted person, however, so I understand it’s hard since you only are capable of processing single points without having the ability to see the greater picture.

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      3. 😊😊 You may call me anything – dim witted, short sighted, moron and many more demeaning adjectives. I don’t mind. I forgive you.. 😊
        Yes I am not brilliant, perhaps I don’t understand the “big picture”. But when one doesn’t want to come rationally, I can’t help it. You are enraged, blinded. Be a bit liberal, calm down and decide rationally. Don’t let your belief blind you.
        Thanks 😊😊

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      4. You still haven’t answered my questions and really – get over yourself – I don’t need your silly assessment of my personality. Who’s the one being blinded here? Don’t act as if you’re rational while you can’t answer one straight question: how would veganism destroy the ecosystem? And besides, if being liberal is all you care about then you don’t have the right to cry about the world being a dark place while your understanding of liberty causes it to be that way. Because that’s the position of the person you tried to defend.

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      5. No more discussion please… 😊😊 you used a great deal of adjectives to me that would have sparked a full fledged verbal war here. I didn’t react. I am sorry, but even if someone is completely wrong, you can’t belittle him like this. It seems my arguments will be in vain here so I guess we should end this discussion.

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      6. Nemo, you keep belittling yourself all the time I quote “I’m just an ordinary man, always” “I’m nobody”! I just did to you what you do to yourself. You’re basically admitting that you’re a hypocrite right now. I have used those adjectives to tickle exactly that out of you, thank you for playing along.

        You’re simply trying to avoid confrontation because you have no argument to back up your moronic claim and your unconscious lifestyle. You want to be somebody so badly yet you refuse to become someone whose life is not worthless. You fail to justify your point of view because even though you want to be somebody you seek approval from authority since you keep falling back towards the government and parental figures in everything you write and publish. You came here to write your comment but upon receiving an answer you try to weasel yourself out of the discussion. I’ve been online during this whole time, around 1 hour ago you told me you’d answer my questions but after 1 hour all you can come up with is ‘the choice of your words is mean’ – because that is what you care about. You only care about how other people see you. You keep belittling yourself just so that other people can tell you how great you are.

        To me, all of your answers were so predictable you can’t believe how tired I am of people like you. Note this for the future: don’t try to spark an argument when you have never even made a decision in life all on your own – you just follow the crowd. And if the crowd jumps off the cliff then that’s what you’re gonna do, too.

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      7. You know… Issac Newton, when asked about his marvellous discoveries, said he was just a small boy collecting peebles on the bank of the ocean of knowledge. If Newton considered himself this, what am I? 😁😁😁
        Yes I am a simple man, and I pray to God I remain simple, always – even if I someday become the Prime Minister of my country.
        Btw, you were so eager to know my point. Let me tell you then. It’s pretty simple – 7 billion people eat veggies, plants gone, supply demand mismatch, animals die of starvation, humans die. The whole ecosystem is on a balance, you pull one string forcefully, the whole structure collapse. This is how nature has constructed everything…

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      8. oh so you’re Christian! That indeed explains everything.
        If God condones the enslavement and chaining of the elephants in the circuses THEN WHAT DOES THE DEVIL DO?
        If God condones lighting dogs on fire for burn research THEN WHAT DOES THE DEVIL DO?
        If God condones torturing bulls in the rodeo THEN WHAT DOES THE DEVIL DO?
        If god condones slaughtering animals and hanging them up side down THEN WHAT DOES THE DEVIL DO?
        If God condones taking baby calves away from their mothers every single year and then the mother cries and screams for weeks and weeks for its baby who is killed for veal just because the dairy industry don’t want that calf to drink all the mothers milk THEN WHAT DOES THE DEVIL DO?
        If God condones grinding up baby chicks alive THEN WHAT DOES THE DEVIL DO?

        Keep embarrassing yourself, I find it interesting. It’s like another study on the inconceivable irrationality of devolved human beings. You are the prime example of devolution. The level never is too low. As for your ridiculous point: have you ever set the foot out into the world or do you still live with your parents in the same neighborhood you were born into? You sound like someone who’s never even left their own town. Because if you’d ever seen something from the world you’d actually see the abundance it has to offer. Hell, you don’t even need to travel far. You can just plant an apple tree or two in your garden and see how much you get from it. Plant some vegetables and see how much you’ll have. I actually lived in other countries and lived different lifestyles. The way you see the world is picture perfect TV material. You’re mentally sick beyond hope and being religious on top of all that proves this. You rather believe in a magical bearded man than what you’d see with your own eyes right in front you if you ever tried. Luckily folks like you will die off rather sooner than later. It’s called natural selection, for stupidity never lasts long.

        “This is how nature has constructed everything…” NATURE HAS INTENDED slaughterhouses to be built where BILLIONS (!) of animals BRED and killed every year solely for human consumption!? You ARE retarded. They are never part of the ecosystem you moron, as they never even set foot out in nature! WTF are you even talking about?

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  2. And please… End this discussion… I don’t want to quarrel. I despise it. And I never, ever belittle anyone, even if he does that to me. You did that repeatedly and didn’t even say sorry for once. Even after that I have not used one single belittling word about you, because I hate using these words. I know to give respect. I respected you, your creative personality. But this behaviour with a fellow blogger – I am speechless. You can confront me, argue with me anytime. But using these words?
    You don’t know what you have done. Hope you realize it, someday.

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    1. Actions speak louder than words.
      But I don’t respect people who don’t respect themselves and anything around them. No matter how much you try to convince me otherwise – you don’t respect life, you choose ignorance while facing arguments you can’t refute and you blabber hysterical nonsense. According to you slaughterhouses are a natural occurence and the slaughtered animals who don’t even live in nature are part of an ecosystem! Dude, that’s beyond retardation!
      And I know exactly what I’ve done and still am doing no need to try and threaten me. I’m not as devolved as you when it comes to words. I’m very well aware of how much it stings you (aww~) but I just like to hurt people when they bs me too much – because I can see all their weak spots. It’s a game to me, I see no worth in the life of a hypocrite like you. If you don’t want quarrel then shut it. You’re the one who came up with the bs in the first place so you get what you deserve. Continuing to argue and trying to prove your pseudo-modesty to me only makes things worse for you. But sure, I can go on up to a very nasty point. You’re dishonest even in your attempt to sound modest. If you were as modest as you desperately try to act you’d know better how to stop this, but no, you have to keep convincing yourself that you act “better” than me because you try so hard to act upon the “highest” principles our society taught you while I don’t give a shit about -sounding- like something. I just -am-. Truth sure isn’t always pink and rosy and I can see how much truth I actually voiced in that very specific comment that triggered you. It’s up to you what to do now. I can play forever.

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      1. “You are the prime example of devolution”… “You’re mentally sick beyond hope”

        If you wish to win a debate, flinging insults at your opponent will do anything but. I would’ve loved to have a discussion with you, only I regret not coming here sooner. Your sources may be valid, but disparaging others in the process of making an argument does not make that argument any more appealing.

        Clearly, you are passionate about environmental issues. As am I. You may find it ironic that I am actually a vegetarian, though I claimed that “there is nothing wrong with eating meat”. I would be more than happy to explain my reasoning behind this claim. I will read through the sources you’ve linked for me, and we’ll take it one argument at a time.

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      2. Yeah I know I was very harsh to him but I really don’t like him so I was biased like that. I didn’t care about making my arguments appealing to him because he’s just so incredibly ignorant and he kept pushing things to a new low. I won’t be like this to you because contrary to him I don’t know you and you’re nowhere close to his level of ignorance. It’s hard to explain how this whole issue makes me feel and I turn the rage on when people refuse to see how stupid their claims are – this guy really believes that slaughterhouses are natural and the animals there are part of the ecosystem – ahhhhh I can’t help but rage rage rage, holy sh*t….so indeed I turn harsh on purpose when it comes to this level of bs, I hope you can understand.

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      3. No, I do not understand how disrespecting others is acceptable, especially if they have not disrespected you.

        If you are unable to discuss issues with different kinds of people without expressing hatred, then expect little to change for the better. Me being a stranger does not make me any more entitled to your respect than does someone you know well. Treat others the way you would want to be treated.

        Fortunately, I believe that most of the arguments you had against my post were on behalf of misunderstandings.

        “…you admit to have no idea about reality.”

        I did not admit to that. I said the environment I live in is a bubble, in that the social issues that exist in abundance on our planet do not exist in the town I live in. The fact that they do not exist in the town I live in does not mean I am not aware of their existence. I am entitled to make a post about it because I am aware, and I am able to exercise my country’s first amendment.

        “Since when do we have to fear to promote life, health and freedom?”

        I did not write a post about veganism, I wrote a post about poverty. I said I was “not advocating veganism”, simply because I was not advocating veganism.

        “The world won’t change unless you do and your voice won’t be heard if all you ever do is talk.”

        I feel that it is important that I address this line before delving into the heart of your argument.

        I am currently a student in high school working two jobs. It is difficult for me to do much other than talk about the issues I am passionate about. However, I do make every effort to improve the community of which I live in while I am unable to take action on the broader issues facing our world.

        I advise you not to make direct assumptions about those you do not personally know.

        Our opinions are quite similar. I agree with the majority of what you have said. As far as I can tell, the problem here does not lie within my opinions regarding social justice or animal welfare, rather, in how you have interpreted my wording.

        I have examined the articles you’ve linked, and will respond to your other arguments regarding veganism/industrial agriculture as soon as time will permit.

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      4. Oh, I will explain how perfectly acceptable it is to disrespect someone like him(and possibly you?): if you are trying to justify bestiality (because some farm animals actually need sexual stimulation just like humans – to get them to jerk off, there are no animal prostitutes, so humans do the job) if you are trying to justify the torture, rape and killing of 20+ billions of animals/year with some retarded fallacies, faulty evidence and psychopathic claims (aka food chain, survivability, world hunger, ecosystem collapse, slaughterhouses being natural, circle of life ahh I heard it all), continuosly proving what a hypocrite you are while still trying to convince others that your selfish „preferences“ and „morals“ stand above anything – what respect do you even dare to speak of? Just because they’re animals we’re talking about you think he’s entitled to some form of respect? Dude, the only thing people like that deserve is for one fucking day to actually experience what the thousands of animals went through just for their(!) petty taste buds alone. They’d never recover. Just because you don’t like the way I talk to you or anyone else won’t make the truth I speak any less of a truth. Judge the message not the messenger. I didn’t care to convince him because he’s a waste of time, my only goal was to make him feel like shit just because I can – pretty much how he pays people to rape, torture and kill animals just because he can. I’m aware it might make things a tad more unpleasant to read for some but I couldn’t care less. I-do-not-respect-people-like-that and I never implied I would respect you more than him, get over yourself. I only offered you a less of a harsh treatment than him but if you insist on the same, I won’t complain x)

        It has nothing to do with „treat others as you want others to treat you“ when you are actually speaking to a psychopath. Why in the world would I be nice to a psychopath? Only because this kind of psychopath is a social norm? I wish I could laugh about it. He deserves things so much worse than the stings I delivered to him.

        It’s pretty simple: if you are a piece of shit then I will treat you like one. I see no point in making the effort to be a pretentious fuck just to satisfy your petty desire of being someone of any worth while you are supporting what I wrote above. There is no valid argument out there against veganism yet you are still up and ready to attempt to prove me how there is „nothing wrong“ with bestiality along with the torture, rape and killing of 20+ billions/year of farm animals alone (not even considering the aquatic species which is another 50+ billion/year)? Veganism has everything to do with your article, no matter if you wanted to write about it or not, you mentioned veganism and it’s one of the closest solutions to most of the problems you talked about as well. So you also have to accept my right to speak whatever the fuck I want at this point as well.

        If you were as passionate as you claim you’d do better research as opposed to suggesting that somehow someone should do something to make the world somehow better without actually changing much. Your double standards and feelings mean nothing in the face of the problems you talked about.

        I know you’re a vegetarian because you tried to gain sympathy for that previously, but vegetarian or meat eater honestly is not a big difference to me. You still support bestiality, rape and killing of billions of animals. How? Because a mammal, in order to give milk, needs to be impregnated first. Do you really believe that the psychos at the slaughterhouses care to let bulls and cows get a room to fuck and make babies? People artificially impregnate the cow so that she can produce milk for humans (despite it being form a different species, and to understand why that’s wrong all you need to apply is a little bit of logic). A mother’s milk – even by definition – is only for their own(!) babies, it is not meant for the consumption of other species. Rats don’t casually drink cow milk and vice versa. Cats don’t casually drink dog milk and vice versa. The only case is when humans step in and force feed the animals but let’s not get into that. Furthermore, what do you think happens to the baby cow the milk was actually meant for? They get torn away from the mother, you should witness such a scene even if it’s just some YT footage, I dare you. And then they get killed right away. Sometimes by someone basically stomping their head until they’re dead. Welcome to the Veal industry. The mother gets artificially impregnated which is basically cow rape over and over again until she gets worn out and can’t produce as much milk anymore. Did you know that most of the slaughtered cows on the flesh market used to be milk cows? Your demand for milk literally feeds the meat eaters. So this is the kind of shit you support. You still expect me to respect you?

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  3. “So this is the kind of shit you support.”

    Did I ever say I supported the methods of industrialized farming? No.

    “…you should witness such a scene even if it’s just some YT footage, I dare you.”

    I am perfectly aware of the horrifying things that happen in those institutions. I have seen footage of the things you have described.

    In the ideal world, I would love the idea of everyone converting to veganism. Even with the options we currently have, I would love the idea of everyone converting to veganism. But is this an ideal world? No, this is reality. Not everyone loves the idea of veganism. Meat and dairy have been part of our lifestyles for millions of years, dairy for thousands. Our bodies are not originally suited to consume these substances—but that does not change the reality that these substances have been so deeply-rooted into human culture, lifestyle, and the world economy. After millions of years of consuming meat, it will take millions of years for people to stop consuming meat.

    As we wait for this vegan revolution to take shape, there are alternatives as to how we lessen the atrocities of industrialized farming. This is what I had attempted to touch upon in my post. My wording was vague, and I apologize for that.

    This was part of my reply to your comment: “…we would have to adapt to using more humane, environmentally-friendly pastoral methods as opposed to industrial methods to preserve both the environment and our economy.”

    There is an alternative farming method known as “pastoral” farming. Instead of crowding livestock/poultry into filthy, suffocating barns, the animals would be raised in large pastures, outdoors.

    One beautiful example of a pastoral farm is Polyface Farm in Virginia. At Polyface, the livestock are rotated around different sections of the pastures according to the season, so that the manure dropped in one section has time to decompose in the soil as the cows have room to feast upon grass in a new section. The manure dropped in these pastures fertilize the grass for the pastures, so that no artificial fertilizers are needed. Chickens live on these pastures as well, and play an important role in the farming cycle; the chickens distribute the manure across the pasture once the cows’ rotation in a particular section of the pasture is finished. It is a harmonious process in terms of eco-friendliness, animal welfare, and economic preservation.

    Polyface, and farms like it, are quite exceptional places. Of course, finding farms like these are rare, as the trend is to use government corn subsidies to make cheap meat (which is the industrial farming you’ve been describing).

    The love of meat consumption will not die out any time soon. Advocating veganism is a great solution, but no one can guarantee that every country, every culture, every individual on the planet will stop eating meat. Pastoral farming is the solution for those who will not give up eating meat, and for those who are sickened by industrial practices.

    With the advocation of veganism along with supporting farms that use humane methods, hopefully, a healthier balance will occur. The situation, right now, has no black and white solution. There will have to be a compromise. We must take into account animals and people, both, if any progress is to be made.

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    1. „Did I ever say I supported the methods of industrialized farming? No. „

      So you turn the hypocrite on, I think I even explained this to you because I knew you would deny your role in this. You simply don’t want to acknowledge it, as it seems. Listen, just because you don’t support the methods in your head: you-still-are-a-vegetarian! Vegetarians eat dairy. I explained what the dairy industry does to the animals. You pay money to the dairy industry (and the slaughterhouses because..dude idk why I should write this again, read the last paragraph of my previous comment where I talk about vegetarians.) SO OF COURSE YOU SUPPORT THE INDUSTRY AND THEIR METHODS! If you didn’t, why would you pay them for this!?!? You decide to finance them, which gives them reason to continue this. I can’t make the explanation more retard-friendly aside from applying your logic to a different situation. According to your logic I could pay someone to rape your mother’s ass while saying „nah, I don’t support rape“ and I would be off the hook.

      „we would have to adapt to using more humane, environmentally-friendly pastoral methods as opposed to industrial methods to preserve both the environment and our economy. „

      when the demand is in the billions (20+ farm animals in america during 2009, alone) there is no way you can avoid torture. I am not saying everyone should go vegan – the fuck did you even get that from? Is it because you have no better arguments and so you have to take everything to the extreme? I was even talking about this in my original post: demand-needs-to-be-lowered-to-the-fucking-minimum. Arguing history is ridiculous – in the past the demand for flesh was never as high as it is today. People might’ve done this for survival. Modern humans are way past the survival stage. We don’t need to eat animals to survive and it is proven that OVER-CONSUMPTION of flesh has devastating consequences not only for the human body!

      I don’t care if people want to be fat, sick and catch dementia „because tradition“. Only retarded people would over-consume something today because people in the past consumed the same thing in much lower quantities. Therefore, I don’t care what consequences people suffer from eating corpses and their secretions. In fact I think every person who intentionally pays for the unneccessary torture and death of billions of animals should suffer cancer and other diseases for as long as possible before finally dying off.

      „the animals would be raised in large pastures, outdoors. „ again: this is wishful thinking. how do you imagine this to happen when the demand is at 56 billion farm animals per year worldwide? We already face environmental problems (deforestation, because it takes nearly 7 pounds of grains, 50+ gallons of water and 70+ feet of land to produce a hamburger, today and world hunger (because crops other people could eat are being fed to a few grams of bacon and beef a meat-eater would casually devour) – all this while the animals still are cramped in factories! Google how many resources it takes to produce some hamburgers, really. Don’t say you don’t support this because as a vegetarian you still do. I explained how, in my previous comment. To take all those animals outside and let them enjoy life before getting slaughtered – can you even comprehend how much space that’d require? Do you want to live cramped in an underground cave while the food you eat takes up all the space on Earth and Moon?

      Now to the love of your life: Polyface, oh Polyface! How many animals does Polyface kill off? Hundreds? Thousands? This is just ONE farm in America, kid. I am talking about a demand of BILLIONS of animals per year WORLDWIDE. I can only repeat myself here. You have to be quite deranged to argue this perfect fairy tale treatment for a demand of corpses that high.

      Pastoral farming is a good way only when the demand gets lowered to maybe a few millions of animal corpses worldwide.

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      1. I suppose everyone who is not vegan should stop making all efforts to create positive change in the world, because we’re all hypocrites, anyway.

        I assume you are arguing the extreme because you continually condemn, quite harshly, anyone who is not vegan. I interpret this to mean that, in the ideal world, you would wish for everyone to be vegan.

        “…can you even comprehend how much space that’d require? Do you want to live cramped in an underground cave while the food you eat takes up all the space on Earth and Moon?”

        I do believe I mentioned in one of my previous comments that advocating both a vegan diet and pastoral farming was essential.

        Evidently, neither of us seem to be enjoying, or benefiting, from this discussion. Please read your comments out loud to yourself—better, to someone else, in person. Reading them, I can see nothing but confirmation bias.

        I have already admitted my faults—I was wrong, there are things that are wrong with eating meat. And I thank you greatly for pointing that out to me, and taking the time to draft an enormous response to my post. You care about this subject quite deeply. I am just concerned that you may experience little luck in converting others to your ideologies as long as you rely on using degrading language to make your point.

        Unless you can begin to respond maturely, it’s best we end this discussion.

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      2. „I assume you are arguing the extreme because “ – How about you follow some of your own advise: you shouldn’t make assumptions about people you don’t personally know. And then again it’s weird, I thought you wanted to debate me. Debates are all about arguments, had noone ever taught you this? Why do you complain that I introduce arguments to the game? Because you can’t refute them. You knew it from the start. Besides, I recall you saying something along the lines of „we’ll take it argument by argument“, so that’s clearly what you wanted. And you obviously lost the case. Need some momma milk to help you calm down? Oh, I forgot, your momma can’t give it to you, since you’re no longer a friggin’ baby! So you have to work two jobs just to pay people to rape animals for your milk delivery. Why does hearing the truth bother you so much?

        „Vegan diet and pastoral farming“ – it is not a dream team and never will be since causing unneccessary harm to living beings in itself is psychopathic behavior. There is no such thing as humane murder. Because it would be murder if you switched the animals with humans. Bring me one example of humane murder which you would be okay with if it was being done to you or your family.

        I’d like you to read your comments out loud to yourself and actually see what you stand for. At least you admit that you stand no valid ground as the psychopath you are. No need to be concerned about me here though. I am not trying to convert people to “my” ideology. (as if it was only mine?!) Veganism is not a religion and I am not the head of the vegan society. I believe people have to reach a certain level of intelligence before even being capable of comprehending the concept behind veganism. That you are too dumb to see, I knew from the start. But dumb people will die off, it’s called natural selection. I simply enjoy treating people badly for being bad people. Seriously, how can you not agree that you deserve to be “mistreated” after seeing what you stand for? My oh so harsh language is simply something you don’t want to hear because it’s not as beautiful as you’d want things to be – I simply told you about what you support, in a direct way. That’s too much for you to handle? My harsh language is nothing in comparison to what you expect the animals to go through for your digusting taste preferences. Again: why does hearing the truth bother you so much? Shouldn’t you be proud of yourself for all the suffering you finance?

        I have told you at the very start: there are no valid arguments against veganism and I explained your position to you before you went in to try and prove me something. There is no way you could’ve brought something up that I couldn’t tear down to pieces. Just because you can’t refute any of my arguments and can not justify your unconscious lifestyle all you can do is use some strawman fallacies and point at my harshness.

        „Unless you can begin to respond maturely „ – Cry me a river! Sorry, but my patience is very low when it comes to discussing rape and murder in the billions. Because it would be murder if we switched the animals with humans (saying this before you throw in a pre-written definition which only exists to build a wall between you and the animals you pay people to kill for you; aka euphemism). “Freedomismyvirtue” my ass.

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      3. Oh, I forgot to answer to this: “I suppose everyone who is not vegan should stop making all efforts to create positive change in the world, because we’re all hypocrites, anyway.” – yeah, you’re right. If you truly care about the environment and shit, you’d be vegan. That’s the only logical thing to do in face of the facts. Everything else is a mere attempt to paint a pretty picture of yourself, only FOR yourself. You know, just so as to not feel too bad about all the terrible things you’re responsible for. http://www.mercyforanimals.org/you-cant-eat-meat-and-be-an-environmentalist

        And this one counts as a little bonus to my previous comment: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/lets-talk-about-all-the-pus-americans-are – enjoy.

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